View Full Version : rover v8 fireing order
Evening all, im out in the garage at the mo trying to fire up my engine for the first time but not allot happening , got fuel & spark , so thats all good , but wanted to check ive got the fireing order correct..
looking at the block from the front of the car I have 1 to front left bank, no 2 to front wright bank , then contnues odd left hand side even righthand ,,
is this correct ??
also what order should the leads be in on the dizzy ??????
input would be greatly appreciated.
thanks
swompy
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langysrodshop
12-12-09, 06:43 PM
1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2.
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h229/stevelangylang/Other%20stuff/firingorder.gif
cheers steve , ill boil the kettle & go double check everything ,, :)
anything else worth checking i might a missed?
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wouldnt that make number 1 cylinder front left sat i the car by looking at ya picky ?????? lol
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wouldnt that make number 1 cylinder front left sat i the car by looking at ya picky ?????? lol
Yes mate, sat in the car the front left is number 1, front right number two.
In the pic the number 1 on the dizzy may well not be where it shows. You need to locate that and line up to it by checking with piston 1 at TDC on compression stroke.
The Rover V8 will start and run with the timing miles off, so if it is totally dead, not even trying, you will probably have some other fault.
Ford34/2
12-12-09, 07:35 PM
as previously posted,
double check you have the timing right, have you had the distributer removed from the engine?? if you have--now remove the plugs,
have you turned the crankshaft to put the number one piston at top dead centre, you could double check with a compression tester you are on the compression stroke cranking the engine under power, check the timming marks on the crank pully.TDC with the pointer
did you lign up the distributer with the rotor arm pointing to number one lead on the distributer cap, did you turn it slightly back to wards No 2 lead before inserting into the engine as it slews in.
have you then rechecked the number one pistion is TDC and the timing marks on the crank pully lign up, turn the crankshaft with a socket.
if you have done all this put the plugs back in,you should fire up.
remove a plug or two double check the plugs are wet with petrol when you are cranking the engine but its not not firing?????
you could also put a timing light on just to satisfy curiosity you are all correctly timed.
Stan.
thanks guys , plenty of food for faught ,, just ha a coffe & a prod round , block was wired corect , dizzy was 1 ht clockwise so that was rectified along with a fresh dizzy cap , tried fireing her again & almost for a moment , but me battery is on charge now , the dizzy was never removed so theareticly should be in the right position, will try again in the morning once the battery has plenty of life in it & let you all know how things go.... cant wait to hear her runnin :)
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Captain Scarlet
12-12-09, 07:59 PM
If the engine has been standing a while ,be careful not to be tricked by the hydraulic lifters draining of oil,the valves will not open enough,this has happend to me years ago ,i had all the ignition correct ,then i altered it so it was wrong !!!! convinced i had the ignition 180 out,all along it was because the lifters were dry :o.
Get the ignition right as said above,then take the plugs out ,and give it a good cranking to get the oil round,then,plugs back in and start it.
yea ,, it has been sat for over a hear , so ,, good point captain ,, , ill get the plugs out & fire it over for 30/40 secs before i get stuck in to business :)
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Ford34/2
12-12-09, 10:07 PM
its important as said before to have oil pressure, the pump is not self priming,
its easy to turn the pump with a battery drill and a simple home made tool bit like a flat screwdriver blade to fit into the oil pump. and a round end to fit in the drill chuck, bad news is you need to remove the distributer to turn the pump, before you do this turn the crankshaft to TDC number one piston TDC etc, double check where the rotor arm is -- pointing to number one lead, now take the distributer out, get a torch and check where the slot in the oil pump is pointing, not too sure if its about 10 to 4, anyway check its location, draw it onto a piece of paper you will need to turn it back to this position when you insert the distributer back in for the Distributer spade to engage into the oil pump slot, if you dont turn the distributer once youve removed it it should drop back in -- in the right place --again check and double check its easy to get it out of sync.
Stan
if I havnt had the oil pump apart would it still need priming ?
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If you have been cranking the eng over alot, did you notice if the oil light went out or pressure showing on gauge, if you have either then its OK no need for more priming.
If there is no sign of pressure as above then Priming with a batt drill is the best way to go, as has been posted its very easy to do.
good luck
Brian
If you are not getting oil pressure to work the lifters ( which is highly probable after a year of not running !) you will need to split the pump body just above the filter and pack the pump gears tightly with vaseline ,NOT grease , and reassemble before trying to prime.
Have you changed the distributor because a P6 points distributor in a SD1 engine will not turn the oil pump, but will allow it to start :eek:
ok sunday update.. thismorning I had the oil pump off packed everything & there mum with vasoline & re assembled. battery was freshly charged & all spark plugs were removed.
I cranked the engine over for about 30secs & oil guage rose to about 5lb pressure, which i hope is enough to indicate it primed enough. I also had the rocker cover off & rotated crank untill pully show`d tdc, rotor arm indeed pointing to no:1 lead on dizzy :) stuffed a screwdriver in plug hole , couldnt realy feel alot , so ? on that one , any hows I plug`d everything back up & tried to fire her , but no joy , even tried a little of easy start but all that managed to produce was a quick splutter. not realy sure where to go from hear as never had this sort a problem before having lived in the land of v6 essex.
:(
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langysrodshop
13-12-09, 06:52 PM
Don't put easy start in it mate :eek:
ok sunday update.. thismorning I had the oil pump off packed everything & there mum with vasoline & re assembled. battery was freshly charged & all spark plugs were removed.
I cranked the engine over for about 30secs & oil guage rose to about 5lb pressure, which i hope is enough to indicate it primed enough. I also had the rocker cover off & rotated crank untill pully show`d tdc, rotor arm indeed pointing to no:1 lead on dizzy :) stuffed a screwdriver in plug hole , couldnt realy feel alot , so ? on that one , any hows I plug`d everything back up & tried to fire her , but no joy , even tried a little of easy start but all that managed to produce was a quick splutter. not realy sure where to go from hear as never had this sort a problem before having lived in the land of v6 essex.
:(
ok . .easy start is back on the shelf ..!
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Mark Bull
13-12-09, 07:29 PM
Sounding like you are 180 out??You should be able to feel the piston with a screwdriver i`d have thought...
we wont mention easy start !!
good that the oil pressure started to build at least if it does fire up it shouldnt come to an abrupt hault.
Did you try turning the distributor a bit in either direction and cranking? (not often you get it spot on so could be approx 1 cyl out)
or could be 180 deg out you maybe have it timed for the exhaust stroke instead of compression?
Brian
langysrodshop
13-12-09, 07:35 PM
If you take no1 plug and put your thumb over the hole and bump it over you will feel the compression build up, then just wind it over till piston is at the top, you can feel it with a small thin screwdriver, then put dizzy in with rotor pointing to no1.
Whereabouts in the country are you Swompy ?
If you couldn't feel anything through the plug hole it does sound very much like you are timed 180 degrees out.
hmmmmm ,, best boil the kettle again , its goin cold out there ;) im based near cheddar somerset kapri ,
sounds like ide best go check me tdc again , maybe if im nice i can get the old man to verify im right lol ,, best be quick before he settle in for top gear.
oh & thankyou to everyone for there input thus far.. :)
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Not exactly full of rodders that way unfortunately. If you were closer I'd have popped round to have a look ( I'm near Portsmouth ) ,here's hoping that a location might help someone local to you to realise and pop round.
langysrodshop
13-12-09, 08:24 PM
Isn't Mel Chave near there ???
302zeph
13-12-09, 10:00 PM
My thoughts mate ,
Have you done a compression check in case the rings have stuck and your compression may be low (as you say the engine has sat a while)
Also have you had a look at the camshaft lobes as they are famous for wearing down and this does nt allow the valve to lift off its seat very well (that and lifters needing primed would make her a pig to start and then when it did fire it will run poor)
If all ok try heating the spark plugs as again if its been sitting sometimes this trick starts stuborn engines
I cant remember if you said the car has points or Electronic make sure you have enough volts at the coil on cranking and again when running
Best of luck ,I shall keep an eye on your post to see if I can help you any more Cheers Andy
thats me done for the day ,,, double double checked tdc, rotor position , ht leads & everything else, all present & correct now , but still just splutters , think we`l leave it for 2day & watch the box for a bit.
its dml8 2 wire electric dizzy not checked voltage at coil , thats one for 2morrow , as for the lifters , thats still a possible , as when i tried priming the best i could get was 5lb pressure ,, guess we`l see
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Ford34/2
13-12-09, 11:01 PM
you definite getting petrol through???
not a fond lover of easystart, but it fires up the deadest of the dead.Unipart do a version, not too sure of the name, not quite as harsh as easystart.
Stan
302zeph
13-12-09, 11:47 PM
There's a crackin version on E*bay from Oz called "Start ya B*stard":)
i was thinking how much oil pressure would you expect to see on guage when priming pump ?? Im slightly suspicious im not geting enough lift. & yes , definately got petral , as i can see it fireing out of the acceleerator pump , also tried putting a drizzle straght down
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stueeee
14-12-09, 10:03 AM
Are you sure you've got the motor timed to fire number one cylinder on the right stroke? To check this, take off the rocker cover on the number 1 cylinder side while your rotor arm is pointing at/around the number one cylinder position, then check that you're not getting any movement on the exhaust rocker as the motor comes up to TDC and no movement on the inlet rocker as you pass TDC turning the motor with a spanner or socket on the nose of the crank.
If you have any movement of the rockers for the number one cylinder, the ignition timing is 180 degrees out; the distributor is trying to fire the end of the exhaust begining of inlet stroke. If you have this situation, pull out the dizzy, turn the motor one complete turn round to TDC and put the dizzy back with the rotor pointing to number one again. Or you can leave the distributor in place and move all the leads round in the distributor cap by 180 degrees which does the same job.
HTH, Stuart.
Captain Scarlet
14-12-09, 10:15 AM
Hi Anthony,feeling your frustration and i am sure we have all been in a situation like this.
I went back to the start of the thread,there seemed some doubt over location of the plug leads.
I think this is worth re checking again as you have said the dizzy has not been removed (and i assume it was running ,with no one else tampering with the dizzy after) and i think you said the cap and leads have been disturbed.
check the leads are in the right position as per langys illustration as far as the heads are concerned.
and the rotational firing order is correct with the rotor pointing at the lead that goes to #1 Important,the position of 1 thu to 8 on your cap may be in a different position to the illustration,but, should still be the same firing order.
My point is as long as the dizzy starts of at #1 @ TDC the position of the firing order is irrelevant.
Sorry if this is obvious to you,but i have seen this happen before ,and it would explain the problem.
Good luck
PS ,Stuee had posted something in a similar,while i took to long to type my post
Yea im pritty certain its timed to the right stroke, but just to satisfy my curiosity i swapped all 180 & try`d that all i got was backfireing through the carb & a small fire lol...
& no need to appologise scarlet, in my experience its normaly the obvious at fault.
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JUST HAD ANOTHER THOUGHT !look at me lol..... the crank pulley with the timing marks, is this inserted onto the crank with a wood ruf key or does it just bolt on with xnumber of bolts ?sure its wood ruf only because i thought what if it wasnt installed by previous owner correctly , giving false tdc on pulley - could i be miss interpriting tdc with a screwdriver in block ?
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Rover V8
14-12-09, 06:33 PM
JUST HAD ANOTHER THOUGHT !look at me lol..... the crank pulley with the timing marks, is this inserted onto the crank with a wood ruf key or does it just bolt on with xnumber of bolts ?sure its wood ruf only because i thought what if it wasnt installed by previous owner correctly , giving false tdc on pulley - could i be miss interpriting tdc with a screwdriver in block ?
Hi swompey,
Woodruff Key for sure.
Good luck,
Mike C.
Swompy,what way does your rotor arm turn,clockwise or anti-clockwise?
Do you have spark at every plug?
Are the plugs the correct type for the engine?
hey chris , thankyou for your interest , the rotor arm rotates clockwise , the plugs are bp6es ngk`s & yes I look to haave a spark on all plugs. also I checked the voltage across the coil & it looked to be reading 9.1-9.5 volts.
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Have you got a good,real good earth on the engine?
We are all focused on the spark and timing but it sounds like its been timed and timed again then checked again! spark has been checked at the plugs so assuming all is well in those departments??
If you have a throttle pump you must be running a webber/edelbrock or the like, Has it sat for a year as well ? you may be getting the odd cough due to what the throttle pump is putting in although the rest of the carb could be gummed up???
just a thought
good luck
Brian
stueeee
15-12-09, 10:14 PM
If you haven't got it going yet and are starting to run out of obvious things to check, have you done a compression test on the motor?
If because of stuck valves/stuck rings you aren't getting significant compression, you won't be getting enough vacuum during cranking to pull mixture from the carb either.
You could have vacuum issues caused by a vacuum leak through a faulty brake servo if you have one, or a knackered diaphragm in the distributor's vacuum advance, it'd be worth checking all the vacuum connections around the inlet manifold too.
HTH, Stuart.
Have you tried a drop of fresh fuel straight into the carb ? Unleaded goes off very quickly with the light ends evaporating and making it difficult ( impossible often ) to start .
If it starts bung some fresh fuel in, fire it with a drop in the top and it'll come good. 30 years back Ispent 3 days saying " it's got fuel, it's got a spark ..it MUST start ?" Turned out the fuel was dead and drop of fresh in the carb sorted it
have sent you a pm with my phone number in it. Thursday eve is good for me or else its after xmas.ta
nigel
tuesdays update!!!!!! you`l all like this one I know..
the engine runs , first try :) culpret .. a duff rotor arm... although new it would apear to have been faulty. how ever , this has uncovered 2 more issues which im about to place in a new thread..
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Captain Scarlet
16-12-09, 08:18 PM
Good news Anthony,i can feel your relief over webby :)
so much so ian ,, was doing my head in , & was just as always seems the way ,, the blatently obvious & simple.. dam those cheap chinese rotor arms, only reason i tried another is because my old man had same problem with his frog eye, & ive seen a couple come through work as of late.
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